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Bjorn quite enjoyed his conversation with Frederico. There was nothing pushy or pretentious about the way Frederico explained his theology, and Bjorn found it quite refreshing to be able to ask straight forward questions without feeling a need to watch his language or defend his secular views.

Frederico did not seem the least bit anxious to convert anybody. He was obviously convinced that he had it all figured out, and that people would see things his way once it had been explained properly to them, making it quite counter productive to be pushy in any way.

But the conversation was broken off just as Bjorn was starting to warm up to the idea of the empire and the kingdom. A tall black woman entered the church from the side, shortly followed by an Asian woman who Bjorn immediately recognized as Aung.

"Isn't that just typical?" the black woman said. "You go off ahead of us, saying you will get things ready, and then you just hang around talking to strangers... You haven't done a thing, have you?"

Frederico did not answer, but told Bjorn and Ante that this was his wife, Elisabeth. Then he turned to Aung, introducing her too to Ante and Bjorn. And for a moment they all did their little polite routine, shaking hands while telling Elisabeth and Frederico how they knew Aung from Nora's place, and that Bjorn had even met Aung at Ane's factory on Wednesday.

"It's a small place, this village," Elisabeth commented. "Not exactly São Paulo."
"No, you're right about that," Frederico said with a nod and a smile.
"So you're from São Paulo?" Bjorn asked.
"Yep. That's where we met."
"And you're from Burma, aren't you?" Bjorn asked, turning to Aung.
"Well, how did you know?" Aung asked.
"Didn't you tell me that yourself?"
"Did I? I don't know."
"Well, anyway, with a name like Aung..."

Aung nodded, clearly pleased with Bjorn's attention to details. Then, Elisabeth called off the small talk, noting that people would be coming to the church any moment, and that there was no time to waste.

The two women disappeared into a small room to the side, emerging a little later, each wearing a robe, covering their semi-formal attire.

However, Frederico did not let his wife's playful nagging distract him from continuing his conversation with Bjorn. Frederico lit two candles, one on each side of the alter, and proceeded to turn on some lights in the ceiling, while continuing on his little lecture.

"Any entity trying to interfere in our direct communication with Him is by its very nature evil," Frederico explained. "And the greatest and fiercest entity of this kind today is the state."

"The state tries to deceive us into thinking that there is somehow a need for authority above and beyond Jesus and His law. And the state makes the claim that our belief in God and the Golden Rule is somehow occult and irrational, while in fact, it is the state that is based on an irrational and deeply occult presumption."

"The state assumes authority where no authority has been given, and the state enforces its authority by systematically breaking the Golden Rule."

"The state is in fact a false religion, demanding everyone's loyalty from the moment they are born, claiming a contract exists between it and every person born within it's realm."

"It is perverse to the extreme. Imagine the insanity of such a claim!"

Bjorn looked blankly at Frederico, not quite getting what he was driving at. But once again, Frederico did not mind Bjorn's reluctance or inability to make sense of what he was saying.

"You are Norwegian, I take it," Frederico asked.
"Yes I am," Bjorn confirmed.
"So you have to pay taxes to the Norwegian state, right?"
"Yes, like everyone else in Norway."
"And why exactly do you have to pay these taxes."
"Well... It's the law."
"And you will be put in jail if you try to avoid this, right?"
"Yes."
"Which violates the Golden Rule, does it not?"
"Yeah, I guess so."

Frederico took a short break to let this last point sink in. Then he continued.

"The state claims the right to your hard earned money based on a fiction called the Social Contract. And to believe in this fiction requires such a leap of faith that the resurrection dims in comparison."

"How can anyone really believe that a newly born baby has signed a contract, and that this contract requires it to live a life in bondage to the state?"

"Only the most evil of religions deny a person the right to leave."
"But that's not true," Bjorn protested. "Anyone is free to leave, if they wish."
"Really?"
"Yeah, I can change my citizenship if I please."
"But then you're still the property of some state. Change of citizenship does not free you from the state. It merely moves you from one jurisdiction to another."

Bjorn nodded.

"Okay. So what?"
"Well, don't you see? The state insists we must believe in the so called Social Contract, and that we are tied to it from birth. Yet, no such contract exists. It is as occult as it gets. Believing in it makes you an idol worshipper, and makes you accept laws that are in direct violation with the Golden Rule."

"The state drives a wedge between people and God, obscuring the eternal truth, while seeking to replace it with its own phoney theology."

"The state is also dangerous in other ways," Frederico continued. "By its claim that it holds authority over us, and that its laws are valid despite of being in direct violation with the Golden Rule, it inspires blind obedience in its worshippers, an obedience towards evil, no less. And countless are the people murdered and slaughtered and imprisoned by the followers of the state."

"The state is of Satan, no less. It is pure evil, even in its most moderate form."
"Well, that's a bit rich isn't it?" Bjorn said, a little amused with Frederico's hyperbole.
"You think so?"
"Yes. I think you'd be more convincing if you did not exaggerate so much."
"So why don't you give me an example of a moderate state, and I'll show you how evil it actually is."

Bjorn shook his head.

"How about Norway?" he said.
"Well, that's easy," Frederico said with a smile. "Even I have heard about Odd and how he's being tortured for not paying his taxes."
"But tax evasion is a crime," Bjorn protested.
"Says who?"
"Well, the state."
"Exactly."

Bjorn, seeing how he was trapped in Frederico's logic, gave his defence of the state a final go.

"So, what are you suggesting?" Bjorn asked. "That we stop paying taxes? How will that work out?"
"It will work out just fine," Frederico replied. "I know, because that is what Jesus would have wanted."
"Chaos?"
"No. Order. It is the state that throws innocent people in jail. Jesus never suggested anything like that."
"So we should just abandon the state? Is that what you suggest?"
"That is indeed what I suggest."
"So that is what this whole Fifth Empire thing is about?" Bjorn asked. "You suggest we all join this empire as an alternative to the state. Isn't that the same as just joining nothing, becoming a recluse as it were."
"No. There is a big difference between becoming a recluse and being a citizen of the empire. A citizen is not merely against the state, a citizen is for the Fifth Empire, the community of people living together according to the Golden Rule."